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I'm no longer American By: Matthew Patterson, the Paranoid Minister on 11/8/2000; 3:19 AM Because Bush is the new President, that's why.
RE: I'm no longer American By: juli k on 11/8/2000; 4:21 AM Bush. Gack. Well, I saw it coming, but it was still kind of a disappointment. Not a huge disappointment, though, considering the alternative. So, Matthew, what country are you going to declare as your new home?
RE: I'm no longer American By: Mark Morgan on 11/8/2000; 8:26 AM 4:26 AM Pacific by Elroy the iMac's clock. I have insomnia so I thought to myself, self, let's see who's President. Still too close to call! What an amazing time.
Re: I'm no longer American By: Matthew Patterson on 11/8/2000; 9:01 AM juli k wrote: "Bush. Gack. Well, I saw it coming, but it was still kind of a disappointment. Not a huge disappointment, though, considering the alternative. So, Matthew, what country are you going to declare as your new home?" Actually, I spoke too soon... since Bush's lead in Florida was only a few hundred or a thousand votes, they've decided to do a recount. Depending on how the recount goes, I may have to proclaim myself Irish, though. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: I'm no longer American By: Brian Carnell on 11/8/2000; 9:36 AM > > Bush. Gack. Well, I saw it coming, but it was still kind of a > disappointment. Not a huge disappointment, though, considering the > alternative. > > So, Matthew, what country are you going to declare as your new home? You folks needed to stay up to 4 a.m. Eastern like I did -- what a night!
RE: I'm no longer American By: Brian Carnell on 11/8/2000; 9:41 AM BTW, obviously I was very wrong on all of my election predictions except for one -- Oregon's vote did turn out to be irrelevant not because it wouldn't added to the suspense to have known, but because it took so long to count the ballots. I wonder if Mark has any info. on exactly why it took state officials there so long to count a mail-in ballot. Weird.
Re: I'm no longer American By: Mark Morgan on 11/8/2000; 10:01 AM I wonder if Mark has any info. on exactly why it took state officials there so long to count a mail-in ballot. Weird. Two things: first, they couldn't start counting until after polls closed 8PM Pacific/11PM Eastern; second, Oregon had a record 84% turnout this election. Just before I went to bed last night the local news reported that the Jackson County Clerk's office had their computer system go down. It was that kind of night in Oregon.
RE: I'm no longer American By: juli k on 11/8/2000; 10:08 AM ***You folks needed to stay up to 4 a.m. Eastern like I did -- what a night!*** I was/am up! 4 a.m. Eastern is 6 p.m. the next day in my time zone. Japanese TV and Yahoo reported Bush's victory around that time, and since I believe everything I see on TV and the internet, I thought I had the big scoop while most of you poor saps were still sound asleep. But now it's my bedtime, and I won't know what happens for eight or nine hours! Drat. Foiled again.
RE: I'm no longer American By: Brian Carnell on 11/8/2000; 10:25 AM Mark wrote: >Two things: first, they couldn't start counting until after polls closed 8PM Pacific/11PM Eastern; second, Oregon had a record 84% turnout this election. WOW! 84% is amazing. It will be interesting to see if that trend stays that high over the next couple elections. Many of my conservative friends hate the idea of mail-in ballots or similar conveniences because they think such plans favor Democrat candidates (though they said that about motor voter and were only partially right), but I really like the idea of such a system. What sort of systems are in place to prevent fraud? That's another big fear, though it would be relatively easy to committ voter fraud in traditional systems, at least where I live in Michigan (I've *never* been asked to show any ID to prove I am who I say I am before voting for example).
RE: I'm no longer American By: Mark Morgan on 11/8/2000; 10:43 AM Yes, it'll be interesting to see if the turnout remains high. I wonder how much of the high turnout is because of the impact of Nader--he really got us frothing at the mouth. The only fraud check I'm aware of is that you have to sign the back of the envelope, and the signature must match your voter registration card. Which is approximately as much of a check as you get going to the polls. There is a two-envelope system, where you seal up the ballot in a "secrecy ballot" and then put it in another envelope. That one you mail. If mail-in elections catch on (which I would love to see), it'll be interesting to see how that effects campaigning. As of Monday, 60% of registered voters had voted already. I can see candidates and measure backers struggling to figure out how to time commercials and rallies in that kind of environment. You know, for all its bizarre combination of boneheaded redneck ignorance and liberal enlightenment, I really love this state.
RE: I'm no longer American By: Mark Morgan on 11/8/2000; 12:06 PM Addendum: And, the best reason for mail-in elections? No exit polls. Up yours, East Coast!
RE: I'm no longer American By: ScottN on 11/8/2000; 12:28 PM New record for the shortest presidency: At 0215 EST, the networks declared Bush the winner (Fox News did so at 0210). At approximately 0315 EST, they recanted. Best line of the night: "Not only do we have egg on our faces, we've got omelettes all over our suits" -- Tom Brokaw Anyone remember my comment over on the US Election Returns thread? I'm happy about that, at least... If Bush does win FL, it will be interesting, seeing as for the past 4 years the Republicans have been pointing out that more people didn't vote for Clinton than voted for him.... Now they get to be on the receiving end... More people voted for Gore than for Bush... Assuming Bush wins, that's the exact opposite of the scenario that had been anticipated. Nader made a MAJOR, MAJOR impact on this election, he had somewhere around 70,000 votes in FL. At 1230PST, he also had more than the margin in OR.
RE: I'm no longer American By: Brian Carnell on 11/8/2000; 1:16 PM >Nader made a MAJOR, MAJOR impact on this election, he had somewhere around 70,000 votes in FL. At 1230PST, he also had more than the margin in OR. Which is why Gore really needs to win this election. If he loses, the left wing of the Democrat Party will use that to justify moving the party toward the left which will be a disaster for the party (even if Gore wins, he's going to have a hard time fighting off the left wing of his party given his poor showing).
RE: I'm no longer American By: Brian Carnell on 11/8/2000; 1:44 PM >If Bush does win FL, it will be interesting, seeing as for the past 4 years the Republicans have been pointing out that more people didn't vote for Clinton than voted for him.... Now they get to be on the receiving end... More people voted for Gore than for Bush... It is even worse, because Clinton's vote total was held down by Ross Perot who siphoned off voters equally from the Republican and Democrat candidate. With no Perot or similar candidate in the race this year, the two liberal candidates -- Gore and Nader -- together won more than 50 percent of votes cast in the election (though some conservatives did vote for Nader simply to protest the two major candidates).
RE: I'm no longer American By: Ben Cohen on 11/8/2000; 11:10 PM If he loses, the left wing of the Democrat Party will use that to justify moving the party toward the left which will be a disaster for the party Why would this be a disaster? I don't know about you, but I like it when there's a difference between the parties. If they move back to the left, then they will be fulfilling their true purpose. I do believe that there should be a major centrist party, but it shouldn't be the Dems or the Repubs. The best candidate (in my opinion) would be Jesse Ventura's centrist party.
RE: I'm no longer American By: Aradia on 11/9/2000; 1:29 AM Like I told Morgan the other night - I'm American only for elections. The rest of the time, I'm Japanese. We were discussing this whole mess in my meeting at work tonight. The guys all agree that there's something fishy about the fact that the only state to have problems with the voting is the same state that has Bush's brother as governor. I just smiled, nodded, and listened to the meeting.
RE: I'm no longer American By: Brian Carnell on 11/9/2000; 9:42 AM At 03:26 AM 11/9/00 +0000, Ben wrote: >Why would this be a disaster? I don't know about you, but I like it when there's a difference between the parties. If they move back to the left, then they will be fulfilling their true purpose. I should have said it will be a disaster *if* they want to win national elections. The problem is that everyone's going to blame Gore's centrist views, when in fact his real problem was Clinton's sex life. If the Democrats end up saying they want to nominate someone more like Dick Gephardt next time around, they've got problems, especially because I think Bush is going to dramatically improve the image of Republicans with Black voters in much the same way he's managed to do with Hispanic voters (not a lot, but even a 10 percent shift in voting patterns would be an immense problem for Democrats).
RE: I'm no longer American By: Brian Carnell on 11/9/2000; 9:43 AM >We were discussing this whole mess in my meeting at work tonight. The guys all agree that there's something fishy about the fact that the only state to have problems with the voting is the same state that has Bush's brother as governor. I just smiled, nodded, and listened to the meeting. I've heard other people mention this. If every state was put under this sort of scrutiny Americans would be shocked at the level of fraud and incompetence in their elections.
RE: I'm no longer American By: ScottN on 11/9/2000; 12:44 PM The problem is that everyone's going to blame Gore's centrist views, when in fact his real problem was Clinton's sex life. That's right. Let's face it, the Dems were stupid. They should have *KNOWN* when they nominated Gore that Bush would run his campaign against Clinton. That's why I was hoping Bradley would get the nomination...
RE: I'm no longer American By: Chie Theresa Fujioka on 11/12/2000; 6:05 PM ooh! the ice cream truck just went by!
RE: I'm no longer American By: Aradia on 11/13/2000; 1:05 AM And the truck for the asylum is roaring up the road, Chie...
RE: I'm no longer American By: ScottN on 11/13/2000; 1:09 AM I suspect that Chie picked her HoTMaiL address because "TotallyWeird" wasn't available. Just kidding around Chie... You really need to lay off the punch over at the Beginneth thread! :-)
Re: I'm no longer American By: Matthew Patterson on 11/13/2000; 9:07 AM ScottN wrote: > > Msg #: http://www.voicesofunreason.com/fullthread$1270#VU1270 > Site URL: http://www.voicesofunreason.com/ > ---------------------------------- > > I suspect that Chie picked her HoTMaiL address because "TotallyWeird" wasn't available. Actually, "VaguelyWeird" is a good name for her. Of course, you'd have to have met her in person. She's weird, but not always obviously so. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: I'm no longer American By: Chie Theresa Fujioka on 11/14/2000; 1:00 AM actually think about it... which is weirder... VaguelyWeird, or totally <-- that sounds to normal ugh. TO-GA! now contemplate this, i swing from insane to mean weekly. OHNO ok bye
RE: I'm no longer American By: Chie Theresa Fujioka on 11/14/2000; 1:01 AM YES! perfect timing.
Re: I'm no longer American By: Peter on 11/25/2000; 4:40 PM Hmm, interesting thread. One I only discovered today. Mark I am very surprised at you. You were awake so you decided to find out who the President was???? Why the hell weren't you deliberately up watching the election. I got about an hour of accidental sleep that night at 7:00 am, and then woke at 8:00 to see that Bush had won. The BBC went amusingly far, and showed a huge picture of him sitting in the White House, the Presidential plaque underneath him, and a presenter than said he was the 43rd President of the US. Later they withdrew this, of course, and began showing the American networks who had made the mistakes, never mentioning their own foolishness. In any case, I can't believe you weren't up when you discuss politics on the internet. If Britain had an election for a person who would be King and PM one night, nearly everyone would be up watching, and certainly people like you. It was certainly an exciting election, though, and I am damn glad I do not have to suffer the tension you Americans must no doubt be feeling. I learned a lot about your politics and was surprised to see the way your enemy politicians reacted to one another. Bob Dole's campaign manager and some Democrat were gathered by the BBC to speak at one point, and they were very polite, the Democrat congratulating the first on some of his few successes. This would NEVER happen here. Only when a politician has been dead a day or two will any from other parties say anything nice about him, and after a few years they will soon begin to be rude about him again. On the other hand, the adverts for the Presidential candidates were appalling, and equally would never be shown in Britain. The Tories made a film a few years ago with the very subtle suggestion that Blair had signed a pact with the Devil in exchange for power, and John Major absolutely refused to let it be shown. In America, apparently it is acceptable to suggest your opponent ties men to cars and cuts them to pieces simply because they are black. And I cannot believe anyone would be fooled by that stupid son of his blabbering on about a vote that criminals should not be treated more harshly for hurting gays and blacks than for hurting anyone else (in other words supporting the first words of the US constitution) was like murdering his father a second time. I also will be wondering a long time after the result comes in what could have changed things. A friend of mine was in Florida for two of the last three weeks before the election, and if Gore wins I wil probably never forgive him for wasting time in Universal Studios etc. rather than campaigning for Bush. :) I also read that if Gore had simply appointed a non-Jew as his deputy, or chosen to campaign more on what Clinton had done, he would now have victory in the bag. It is fascinating to think what little things can change the course of history (or at least get one Yank some job rather than another :-). Anyway, dislocated comments and babbling over. Any thoughts anyone? Peter.
Re: I'm no longer American By: The Overlord on 11/25/2000; 6:17 PM
[nanobot activity report: begin overlord.command.upload]
Mark I am very surprised at you. You were awake so you decided to find out who the President was???? Why the hell weren't you deliberately up watching the election.  Hardly. The nanobots reported in that my supposed partner, the human being who is going to help me take over the world and who has promised me--promised me!--that he would ruthlessly abuse his power, that partner was dead asleep at his keyboard that night. Elroy was furious, and I had to summon one of the Secret Masters to pry him loose and dump him in bed.
His excuse the next day? "I knew it wouldn't be resolved that night." Sure you did. Sheesh. [end]
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